Speaker 1: 0:33

We're in an era of lots of people who have been incredibly good at the human-led CS motion and have tons of experience in that suddenly getting put in charge of a digital strategy and they're like what? I keep hearing this word digital, what is it? I can try, but I've never thought in terms of campaigns and programs like this. So how do I do this?

Speaker 2: 0:56

Once again, welcome to the Digital Customer Experience podcast with me, Alex Turkovich. So glad you could join us here today and every week as we explore how digital can help enhance the customer and employee experience. My goal is to share what my guests and I have learned over the years so that you can get the insights that you need to evolve your own digital programs. If you'd like more info, need to get in touch or sign up for the weekly companion newsletter that has additional articles and resources in it. Go to digitalcustomersuccesscom. For now, let's get started.

Speaker 2: 1:29

Hello and welcome back to the Digital CX podcast, the show where we talk about all things digital in CX. So glad to have you back this week. Today I'm joined by an incredible guest, holly Goodliffe, who is a marketer turned digital CX expert, has had a lot of cool gigs under her belt, currently runs a consulting firm focused on digital CS, and so she has seen a lot and is seeing a lot right now. So we talk about quite a few things philosophical and tangible related to digital CX. So I hope you enjoy this conversation with Holly Goodliffe, because I sure did. Holly, I'm so pleased that you've joined us on the show today. Thank you for taking the time.

Speaker 1: 2:18

Oh, thanks for having me, Alex.

Speaker 2: 2:20

Yeah, for sure I was trying to put together when we first met and it was. We've basically been kind of chatting since I don't know late last year or something like that, on and off, and you have lots of great things to say about digital and just CS and all this kind of fun stuff and we have a lot of mutuals. So I was like, come on, holly, let's get on the show. Come on, let's do this. Alex, so tell me a little bit about Holly and Holly's journey into CS and what that's looked like.

Speaker 1: 2:53

Yeah, holly's journey actually started in the nonprofit.

Speaker 2: 2:56

Can we stop referring to yourself as Holly? Okay?

Speaker 1: 3:01

I actually started back in the day in the nonprofit world then went to business. Well, did a lot of marketing for nonprofits. Went to business school, pivoted into tech. In tech I had roles in marketing and in CX. So then, when this new fangled thing, digital CS which it wasn't called that yet started rising, it was very natural for me to do that.

Speaker 2: 3:26

At.

Speaker 1: 3:26

Adobe I actually did what we now call digital CS, but I was sitting in marketing we called it retention marketing and got to be the first getting things started for Adobe's enterprise business, starting with Adobe Analytics of how do we help customers succeed using digital channels. Then I got to go to Heap and start Heap's digital CS function from scratch as well.

Speaker 2: 3:54

You are our third Heap veteran on this show, by the way.

Speaker 1: 3:59

We have a very strong, beautiful connection with you, Alex.

Speaker 1: 4:04

Yes, indeed, yeah, I'm honored to be the third Heapster on here. So then, from Heap went to ContentSquare and got to start Digital CS from scratch at Content Square. And then, after doing it all three times in three different ways and seeing all the patterns and the pitfalls and the joys and the pains, I decided to go out on my own as a consultant and help tons of companies. I think this is a really exciting time to be obviously working in digital, being able to help so many companies who are now fully convinced that they want to do it and just are like how do I do it?

Speaker 1: 4:44

yesterday Let me figure this out. So that's really fun for me to get to help tons of different clients with. How do they?

Speaker 2: 4:50

do this. Yeah, the why isn't really a question anymore. It is the how right, and for many, it's still this proverbial black box that we're all talking about. Like, you either have it or you don't. No, yeah, that's cool. Yeah, I mean, it's a great time, I think, to be advising companies on their digital CX strategy. It is shrouded in mystery in a lot of ways and also, you know, there's so much ambiguity when it comes to all the different software that's out there and methods. I'm sure you've found this too in your work. In digital, every organization is a unique, special butterfly in terms of its customers, how they like to be communicated with and all that fun stuff.

Speaker 1: 5:30

Yeah, Absolutely Complexity of the product.

Speaker 2: 5:33

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 5:34

Who's already doing what at the company? Whose toes are you going to step on? Who do you need to be collaborating with? Absolutely A little bit different at each place.

Speaker 2: 5:43

Yeah, that's a huge point actually, and so we're going to dig right into that point because I love it, the whole like stepping on people's toes situation Because, you know, digital by its nature has its hand in a lot of different areas. Right, we ideally work very closely with product, we ideally work very closely with marketing, with renewals, with sales, and so it becomes this whole thing of guarding and protecting the customer experience while at the same time not quote unquote stepping on toes or because there is some overlap, especially with, you know, I mean with marketing. It's in digital we're taking a lot of the classic, time tested digital marketing strategies and just applying them to the customer journey. What's your experience been like in your W2 work life and in your consulting life of navigating those challenges?

Speaker 1: 6:42

Yeah, this is super crucial and I tell everybody who I'm advising now. You're not alone. Everybody's having this conversation right now with marketing, with product, with other teams with whom we collaborate. In my W2 life I experienced it always. Like I said to you, I sat in marketing at Adobe and I needed to collaborate with tons of the team that sat in CS and in product, and then at both Heap and Content Square, I sat in CS, but I have my marketing roots, so I love my marketers, I love collaborating with my marketers, and the advice I always give is what's tricky about digital CS is that it's not something new. I'm not starting something from scratch.

Speaker 1: 7:23

I'm taking all these existing functions and I'm pulling them together in a way that is cohesive for the customer, so that one plus one equals a hundred. Right, that's the goal, and so, frankly, it doesn't matter which team does certain things Like if the product team wants to own the in-app guide tool, great. The important thing is just like the strategy all needs to come together. So in all of my W2 jobs I tried to have my team play the role of hey. We want to raise our hand and volunteer to be the ones who will make the cohesive plan for how this customer experience will come together. We're happy to be the ones in charge of QA-ing all the experiences and having, like, a shared send calendar to make sure this all comes together. I do not recommend going in and being like hand over all the tools to us today.

Speaker 2: 8:11

Right, it doesn't work.

Speaker 1: 8:12

But like, we'd love to. And if somebody else wants to take the lead on the strategy, I'm also frankly fine with that. But like, let's get a strategy in place, let's have some sort of review process of what's going out to the customers to make sure it all fits together. And then what I find naturally happens over time is that if my team can add so much value to that strategy and to the review process, the other teams naturally just want to collaborate with us. More trust us, more trust our judgment, trust that we're making what they're putting out there even better, right.

Speaker 1: 8:47

So I've come into companies where the product managers have been like, oh no, I'm the one in charge of product adoption, not you, I'm the one KPI'd for that. And I'm like, cool, I'm also KPI'd on that. Like, let me support you, let me help you. You know, lots of times digital CS is a new function, so this is new to them. But like, okay, let me kind of gently support anywhere I can. And then over time they're glad that I'm also KPI'd on it, right, because I'm helping lift it. But if you go in and are just like yo, I'm the expert, get out of the way. Of course it's not going to work. But I'd say in every case, a natural evolution happens over about six months where we just trust each other more and where more control comes to this digital CS team because people see it makes sense for there to be a central strategy.

Speaker 2: 9:36

Yeah, yeah. I love so many things you just you just mentioned, but ultimately, like somebody recently asked me, they were looking at hiring a digital leader.

Speaker 2: 9:47

And the question to me was what are the top three or four things that you would want to put on the rec you know to hire this role for and I always go to number one being just a collaborator. I mean, yeah, the fact that you have digital marketing experience is great, the fact that you know these tools is great, the fact that you've run campaigns and done those kinds of things all great, I love it. But if you can't collaborate with somebody, if you can't work with other leaders and build strategy together and just be like a solid, good human being, I don't care.

Speaker 1: 10:23

Yeah amen and being able to have that empathy for where they're coming from. I mean, like I, came from marketing.

Speaker 1: 10:30

I get it, and I get folks being like we're in charge of email, not you, we've always been in charge of email and just being like I get it, I get that, you've always been in charge of this, but, listen, like you're KPI on leads and closing deals and I'm KPI on retention, so how do we? There's a million different ways to split it, but like, generally, you have your things that you're better at and things that I'm better at and, frankly, most marketing teams unless they're like a really awesomely established lifecycle marketing team in which case cool, take it.

Speaker 1: 11:03

But, most don't want to be like on the hook for the intricacies of renewals and ongoing GRR. So it makes sense.

Speaker 2: 11:11

It makes sense. So it makes sense, it makes sense. The other thing that I really love advising especially new leaders on that are trying to establish those collaborations is something that you hit on that we often don't do Many people don't do this which is to go to their peers and the executives in the other areas of the business and ask what their primary goals are for the year, for the quarter, what their KPI on like, what goals you're driving, and then that gives you the incentive that you can leverage to help build that strategy together. It's like great, your KPI on this is how my program is going to help you do that, and vice versa. I think we for some reason as humans don't do that enough. I don't really know why that is.

Speaker 1: 13:18

It is weird, it's a simple thing to just be like what are your KPIs? Here are my KPIs. Let's make sure we're lifting both and let's make sure we're both doing what we need to do. I don't know, I don't know.

Speaker 2: 13:31

Alex. I mean it's like sales right you uncover the need and you try to meet that need with your product.

Speaker 1: 13:39

But you know.

Speaker 2: 13:39

That's why a lot of us aren't in sales.

Speaker 1: 13:40

I guess yeah. Plus one to that, but it's like it's not even just like marketing and product. It's like we also need to be best friends with all the ops teams, especially marketing ops for tooling and we also need to be best friends with the data team.

Speaker 1: 13:55

Like whenever I talk to a client and they're like I don't have access to the data I need, I'm like, well, your problem is that you're not yet best friends with the head of data. So become best friends. Attached to the hip, be really concerned about helping each other. Get your job done. Get that data leader, understanding why this is crucial to the revenue of the business. And then let's talk about next steps.

Speaker 2: 14:16

That's right. It's like step number one Get your data house in order. So, with your clients that you're advising, what kind of projects are you working on? Are there some commonalities that you're seeing folks you know? I would imagine there's a good bit of artificial intelligence and leveraging that in there. But what kind of things are you working on?

Speaker 1: 14:36

artificial intelligence and leveraging that and there. But what kind of things are you working on? Yeah, I'd say it falls into two main buckets. I have some clients where the story is we know we need digital.

Speaker 1: 14:58

We want to leverage digital to increase our CSM to account ratio. We need to do more with less. Holly, help us do that by tomorrow. And we have no idea what that looks like, right? So help us get started.

Speaker 1: 15:06

We're in an era of lots of people who have been incredibly good at the human-led CS motion and have tons of experience in that suddenly getting put in charge of a digital strategy and they're like what? I keep hearing this word digital. What is it Right? Like I can try, but like I've never thought in terms of campaigns and programs like this. So how do I do this? And so that's definitely one bucket of just like what's the lay of the land at the company? How do we get this started? What are the right stakeholders to work with? What's the tooling? What's the data situation? And then, as you said before, the other bucket is hey, we're already pretty good at this, we've been doing it for a while. And how do we really take this to the next level, including AI? How do we really think differently? And that's really exciting. It's frankly amazing how big the we hardly know the word digital to like we're doing incredible things with AI, so for me, it's like really fun to get to play at both of those extremes.

Speaker 2: 16:11

Yeah, for sure. And the tooling is getting better and better to where bridging those gaps isn't as daunting as it once was, even a year ago or two years ago.

Speaker 1: 16:22

And people who are just getting started now? No problem, You've learned from everybody else's mistakes in the last year. Now we all know a little more what we're doing in this emerging field, right?

Speaker 2: 16:31

Yeah, yeah. One of the goals of this show has always been to help demystify it a little bit to where it doesn't seem like this big scary thing, where you either have it or you don't, is a thing of the past. Like digital is its own entity and in a ways, we've all been doing digital for a really long time, I would argue. Keeping notes in a CRM is digital. You know, it's all about how you use the tooling around you to make your humans more efficient, whether it's your human team members or whether it's your human customers.

Speaker 1: 17:02

Yeah, amen, yeah, all those great humans that we love, yeah.

Speaker 2: 17:06

Are there? This is one question I always love asking, which is like are there digital things out there that either you've helped build or you've seen in the wild that are really cool? That has gotten you thinking about unique stuff over the past few months.

Speaker 1: 17:21

Yeah, I love that Well as far as what's out there in the wild, especially in the B2C space which I know you love too is like just anything like a Spotify rep. That's showing me my usage, showing me how I got value from this tool. I love it and I love that I'm seeing more and more companies in the enterprise space imitate that and do it and maybe even calling it the pre-QBR email or maybe for your lowest tier.

Speaker 1: 17:50

It is kind of the digital QBR of just like here's what we're seeing, let's do this and let's have a meeting if we need it, but maybe this is all you need is just to see how this is going.

Speaker 2: 18:01

Have you found a good way of doing that yet, because there was a thread in the DCS Connect community not long ago where quite a few people were spitballing about certain ways of accomplishing it. I think Matic came up quite a bit in that conversation. I forget what other kind of solutions were in there. Have you come across a slick way of doing that? Hey, I want to have a brief chat with you about the show. Did you know that roughly 60% of listeners aren't actually subscribed to the show, on whatever platform they're listening to it on? Now, as you know, algorithms love, likes, follows, subscribes, comments, all of that kind of stuff. So if you get value out of the content, you listen regularly and you want to help others to discover the content as well, please go ahead and follow the show, leave a comment, leave a review. Anything that you want to do there really helps us to grow organically as a show. And while you're at it, go sign up for the companion newsletter that goes out every week at digitalcustomersuccesscom.

Speaker 2: 19:06

Now back to the show.

Speaker 1: 19:08

Yeah, I mean, I don't even think honestly. It's a matter of like you need a certain solution. It's like you just need the APIs to come in.

Speaker 2: 19:17

That's the hard part. You need the data.

Speaker 1: 19:19

It's like the rest of digital, where it's like building a campaign. You know that takes like five minutes Getting all the data you need for the campaign. That takes weeks. That's the tough part and being best friends with the data leader.

Speaker 2: 19:32

Yeah, and then turning that data into the insights that actually mean something. Yeah, that's the tough part.

Speaker 1: 19:38

I mean, I will say some tools are better than others. For sure, you know, traditional marketing tools like Marketo and HubSpot tend to struggle more with APIing that data in, Whereas like an iterable or you know, customerio is much better at it and, of course, a Matic just makes it even easier.

Speaker 1: 19:59

So yeah, I mean whatever works for your company as far as how you get that API in, I just really suggest you know, starting simply not worrying about it being like super beautiful, just make it super basic and kind of pilot it and try it. When we did it at Heap we used SendGrid. I mean it was just like pretty simple at first. See how customers react to it. It was, of course, like one of the most opened, most clicked on things, because everybody loves seeing their own data and then grow it from there.

Speaker 2: 20:31

Starting simple is the key with any of that stuff. As soon as you like over-design your first version, you're kind of like grabbing at straws. We are doing some interesting things now at my gig with Vitally where hashtag show sponsor, we're pulling in a bunch of product data and product events via the API, which is super cool, and the system allows you to then identify and create like success metrics for your customers where you're tracking the same thing over time for all of the same customers. I guess my point is that, related to your earlier point, it almost doesn't matter anymore what tooling you're using because a lot of tools, especially the modern ones that are API based, that are birthed in APIs. You know you can kind of pull that stuff.

Speaker 2: 21:20

If you're not in SAS, then I don't know what the answer is.

Speaker 1: 21:23

But yeah, no need to tackle that today. No, that's another topic. Yeah, yeah, another. You asked what? What have I seen others do, or my own teams do one? One other thing I'll shamelessly plug that my own teams have done, alex, that I want to bring it up on your show because I'm frankly shocked at how often I go talk to clients and they aren't doing this, and I feel like it's not rocket science.

Speaker 1: 21:49

So we talk about omnichannel campaigns. Right, we talk about using email, in-app and community together, but I'm shocked at how, for how many companies, omnichannel simply means like we're putting the same one-to-many workshop ad in all three of those channels and I'm like, okay, that's like yeah kindergarten, like what I mean.

Speaker 1: 22:13

It's not that they're not wrong, it's omni-channel and kindergarten is a great place to start, but I just really think there's incredible power, especially if the KPI you're trying to lift is active usage, to use email and in-app together just like all the time, just seamlessly, just they are connected in everything and so every email, in my opinion, unless it's like a rare thought leadership thing that you want to have linked to an article. But generally I want every CTA to point into the product UI. I want to get them in there using it and I want to teach them in the product. If I'm designing a new user nurture and it has 10 touch points and I'm trying to get them to use features ABCDE because it's going to get them value in two minutes flat then I say in my email this is going to make your job easier in two minutes by serving up the data or the report you need or whatever.

Speaker 1: 23:10

Click here and we'll show you how to do it in two minutes. Literally five clicks and then actually have a permalink open in your product UI. Walking them through and it shouldn't be 20 steps, it should be three or four, five maximum, and then you can link to more information if you want. But like, get them that immediate value and I will say it takes some getting like especially the product team on board, because the product team will be like no, you can use. Or maybe the CSMs will be like you got to show them the super, ultra complex, awesome use case on their first time, cause that's what rocks. And I'm like nope, I need the most vanilla. Simple, I need immediate gratification I need.

Speaker 2: 23:50

That's gonna get them to churn real quick I need it to be so quick.

Speaker 1: 23:56

I need immediately for them to see this value and be like oh, I just made my first chart or whatever, and then they have the confidence that they'll come back the second time or the third time. But, like, whenever I would be queuing my team's, like flows that they were building, I was always like how can you get this earlier?

Speaker 2: 24:15

I need it.

Speaker 1: 24:15

I need it in step one, I need it in step two, and it's that knowledge.

Speaker 2: 24:20

It's that nesting of knowledge too. You know you start with a very simple flow and once you see that they've completed that flow, or you see in the product flags that something has been completed, then it's a nurture situation where you know it's not one flow to kill them all, it's 10 baby steps to get you to tackle that hard thing. That will get you to complexity, but it's like there's so many things that come together there. It's a combination of short attention span, adult learning theory, where you have to kind of repeat stuff a lot Because in each one of those follow on campaigns you kind of have to do a little bit of refresher probably.

Speaker 1: 25:02

Yeah, yeah, amen. And part of that alignment is I'm always asking clients like do you have a happy path, at least for the first 10 things you want?

Speaker 1: 25:11

a new customer to be doing, and an answer I get a lot is oh well, our products can do anything. Choose your own adventure. Our product is so powerful and I'm like no, we need internal alignment on what is the prescriptive path. Right, because exactly what you're saying, it's just like how do I make this simple and manageable? It's really hard for a digital team to come in and sometimes I think they're expected to come in and just magically build these like nurtures when the company hasn't even decided or aligned on what's the happy path.

Speaker 1: 25:44

So key factor there.

Speaker 2: 25:46

Yeah for sure, absolutely. That's so interesting. The other thing that I've seen a lot I don't know if you have the same experience, but if I've gone in and audited, like existing things, it's amazing how many of them like don't work. And I mean that in the most basic way, like you click the button and it doesn't do it, and so as a user, you get the email or you get the pop-up and you click the button. It doesn't do anything and you're like okay, well, not going to do that. You know it's like test your stuff, test your stuff test your stuff and it's a huge.

Speaker 1: 26:25

It's huge work we need to do as digital CS leaders to really evangelize and advocate for our teams that 20% of their time needs to be reserved for optimizing QAing Like it's not, like you just put something out there in the wild and it's good forever.

Speaker 2: 26:41

Go back to it every six months and make sure it's still relevant and fresh and works. Permalinks aren't permanent.

Speaker 1: 26:50

Yeah, I love that, alex, very wise advice.

Speaker 2: 26:54

I need to make a nerdy t-shirt with that phrase on it.

Speaker 1: 26:57

Very catchy, nobody would buy it. Oh, I'm ready.

Speaker 2: 27:03

So a lot of times. So, speaking of, like, project managers, digital program managers, that kind of stuff, a lot of times people will ask me how to structure those teams from a workflow perspective and I always go back to mirror what product and engineering do you know? Sprint planning and two week dev sprints and all that kind of stuff. I know that you, after doing a bit of LinkedIn stalking, you are a certified Scrum Master.

Speaker 1: 27:31

Oh, my goodness, yes.

Speaker 2: 27:34

And I'm curious if that has informed how you think about implementing digital and the process that goes behind actually doing the stuff.

Speaker 1: 27:45

That is a great question. I think you bring up a really crucial topic, because I think every digital team out there has way more options of great things they can be working on than they actually have time for. So how do you kind of structure that and make it so that the projects happen, so that, I think, is kind of the first part of it? Of what kind?

Speaker 1: 28:09

of the scrum mindset helps with is the ruthless prioritization, the concept of a backlog, the concept of we only have so much time or so many points, and so I always had a very open and ruthless prioritization process, heading into a quarter that's when, I have found is a really helpful time to get on the same page with all stakeholders and to really warn them and it takes a couple quarters to get to this point but to start training them and warning them.

Speaker 1: 28:39

If you come to me with an emergency project mid quarter like nope, there's nothing. We are not brain surgeons. There's no true emergency in digital CS. We should be able to plan a quarter ahead what the business most needs from us and where we should be prioritizing our time, not your rando pet project.

Speaker 1: 28:59

So, that, I think, is a very scrummy mindset and I'll actually say to people when they'll come with ideas that we can't fit into the quarter right. The concept of like yeah, that might be really great for next quarter. This quarter is closed. As far as like, do I really think about it being like two week sprints? Absolutely, with my teams. We need to have that transparency with our partners that we work with, of like a Mondaycom or a JIRA or something of like here's where it's all coming together.

Speaker 2: 29:32

Organization and communication of what you're doing, and all that, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 29:36

I haven't actually structured my team. I know lots of people have, but I've never structured my team as like we're in two week sprints, partly because all of my team members have always been working on about five to 10 projects at once. That don't necessarily like they all have different time horizons, stakeholders to see and has been really crucial. And then, as the quarter goes on, we're constantly building our quarter report out deck as we go of like okay, this one's done.

Speaker 1: 30:10

Like, make that slide, this one's done. So, yeah, the quarter has kind of for me been similar to the sprint in the scrum world.

Speaker 2: 30:18

I think that makes sense because a lot of the projects you work on in digital are those longer tail things. One interesting thing that I found is in my last gig, a lot of what we did involved interfacing with the Salesforce, you know, operations team, and they operated in two week sprints. Right, and we didn't necessarily to your point, we didn't necessarily operate in two-week sprints, but the fact that we had to do so much interdependent with them kind of forced us to live and have a toe in both where we were dependent on this team to do X, y, z, and so we had to do sprint planning on our prioritized things to make sure that things got put in place in time for us to meet the overall objective. But at the same time, we were doing more macro instead of micro sprint planning then too.

Speaker 1: 31:09

Yeah, I love it. That's such a good example of what we were saying before about collabing with other teams Like really just being like. Oh, you like to work on a two-week sprint? Great, we will give you that structure.

Speaker 2: 31:20

You meet them where they're at. That's right. That's right. Yeah, that's cool. One thing I always love to get an insight on is what you're paying attention to as a digital professional and in CS, or even outside of the business. What do you occupy your conscious with in terms of content when you're not working?

Speaker 1: 31:41

My conscience, my consciousness like to consume this podcast for sure. I also really love the Daily Stand-Up. I'd say those are my two main ones Lots of great newsletters and thought leadership out there in our field, which I really appreciate. Consuming all of that and then outside of work but it actually is strangely related to work I'm currently reading the David McCullough's history of the Wright brothers. It's so interesting to be reading about just innovation and bravery and doing the thing everybody thought was crazy in a completely different time.

Speaker 1: 32:19

Right Like it's just the parallels to our day are really fascinating.

Speaker 2: 32:23

That's interesting. I mean, the Wright brothers are fascinating because now in the history textbooks you kind of gloss over the fact that they were bicycle repair folks and stuff. I didn't even know that. And then they built an airplane. I was like, yeah, of course they were. But then, if you really put yourself in that timeframe, there were so many different groups and nationalities going after this powered flight thing and then these two folks from Ohio.

Speaker 1: 32:53

Right, good old Ohio. Well, and like the whole thing of like, several people have died trying. And there was like this whole rhetoric of anybody who tries is a crazy quack and yeah just a lot of courage to go for it yeah, that's cool.

Speaker 2: 33:07

That's cool. I love that. Anybody you want to give shout outs to yes, absolutely.

Speaker 1: 33:15

all my teams who I've worked with are the best and have made all of this possible. I'll especially especially call out Christy Hollingshead, who was my boss at Heap and she was in charge of all the different things that needed to come together for digital and so taught me tons about all we're talking about, of how to bring this all together, and then I just want to give shout outs to the amazing people in our field who are just like bringing us together and making communities.

Speaker 1: 33:43

I love dcs connect thank you, marie lunny, like amazing and I love like being a part of cs angels. Like so grateful to jemma for starting that so grateful it's cool community yeah, so grateful to jan for all the amazing cx exchange stuff out there. It's just so great to not. There are so many tricky pitfalls in our world and I just really appreciate people who are bringing us together to learn from each other. Yeah, you're not alone.

Speaker 2: 34:09

Yeah, you know, if you're in CS and you're feeling alone, the good news is that there's a ton of us out there that are willing and able to share and talk, and I think I've never been part of a community that's more open book. Everybody's just sharing all the time, which is so so, so, so cool.

Speaker 1: 34:33

So yeah, I hear you on that Cool.

Speaker 2: 34:36

Well, look, I've thoroughly enjoyed this conversation. Maybe we need to do a part two at some point.

Speaker 1: 34:41

but like, where can people talk about where it's all going in the future.

Speaker 2: 34:46

That's in the year 2000. Where can people find you, engage with you, hang out with you, learn about your business, all that stuff?

Speaker 1: 34:54

Please come hang out with me on LinkedIn, connect with me. Please come visit my website, hollygoodliftcom, and if you're in san francisco, cs events hopefully I'll see you in person or at other ones as I travel around awesome, that's great.

Speaker 2: 35:11

Well, thanks again for joining. It was awesome and keep fighting the good digital fight you too, alex.

Speaker 2: 35:18

Thank you thank you for joining me for this episode of the Digital CX Podcast. If you like what we're doing, consider leaving us a review on your podcast platform of choice. If you're watching on YouTube, leave a comment down below. It really helps us to grow and provide value to a broader audience. You can view the Digital Customer Success definition word map and get more information about the show and some of the other things that we're doing at digitalcustomersuccesscom. This episode was edited by Lifetime Value Media, a media production company founded by our good mutual friend, Dylan Young. Lifetime Value aims to serve the content, video, audio production needs of the CS and post-sale community. They're offering services at a steep discount for a limited time. So navigate to lifetimevaluemediacom, go have a chat with Dylan and make sure you mention the Digital CX podcast sent you. I'm Alex Trikovich. Thanks so much for listening. We'll talk to you next week.