Speaker 1: 0:31

I have a little bit of an attitude because I'm from New York and so I've listened to a lot of your podcasts and the New Yorker will come out in me is that, you know, I just think as digital customer success, digital success, folks really leaning in to how do you drive innovation with your customers? In other words, you know, bringing customers in, when you're even defining a program towards bringing customers in when you're even defining a program.

Speaker 2: 0:53

Once again, welcome to the Digital Customer Experience Podcast with me, alex Turkovich. So glad you could join us here today and every week as we explore how digital can help enhance the customer and employee experience. My goal is to share what my guests and I have learned over the years so that you can get the insights that you need to evolve your own digital programs. If you'd like more info, need to get in touch or sign up for the weekly companion newsletter that has additional articles and resources in it. Go to digitalcustomersuccesscom. For now, let's get started. Greetings and welcome to the Digital CX Podcast. I'm so glad that you're back with me this week and every week as we talk about all things digital in CS. My name is Alex Turkovich and you're tuning in on episode 79, which is staggering that we're getting closer to 100. Pretty amazing.

Speaker 2: 1:45

Anyway, today we've got a fantastic conversation with Scott Wilder lined up for you. Scott is no stranger to digital. He's been practicing this stuff basically his whole life. He's been part of Google, part of Adobe, he's been part of the HubSpot teams. Now he's working as a scaled leader at Clary, and so he's got just a ton of experience and a ton of things to draw from. We get into the weeds about actually Clary itself and CS teams using Clary. We talk about AI and implementation of AI. You know, digital motions that he's implemented and those kinds of things. So very cool kind of in the weeds but lots of experience to share in this particular episode. Also worth noting that Scott and I, along with Samantha David of mondaycom, are hosting weekly meetups Sorry, not weekly, monthly meetups on the first Thursday roughly of each month, featuring a guest.

Speaker 2: 2:55

These are meetups that are specific to digital, and so you know, make sure you keep an eye out for those. We'll be posting about it on LinkedIn, but then there's also a link down below in the show notes that you can go to if you want to go see who's on tap and to sign up for those meetups as well. Completely free to you. It's a good chance to just hang out with digital folks. So please enjoy this conversation with Scott Wilder, because I sure did. Scott, Kenneth Wilder, as I found out, welcome to the podcast. It's nice to have you here.

Speaker 1: 3:28

Great to be here on a easy jazz Friday afternoon.

Speaker 2: 3:31

Easy jazz Friday afternoon. Wilder probably no relation to Gene Wilder.

Speaker 1: 3:39

Nope, nor Thornton, a few other Wilders.

Speaker 2: 3:45

Look, we've met several, several times. We met a while ago, started rapping about digital. You had a lot of great stuff to say. We met a while ago, started rapping about digital you had a lot of great stuff to say. More recently, we've been working together on, you know, first Thursday, digital and scaled CS meetup type situation, which is super fun, and so I wanted to obviously have you on the show just to to rap about digital in more public. But would you, would you give us a rundown? I mean, your background is pretty insane because you've got there are a few people who have like Google and Adobe and things like HubSpot on their rap sheet. So would you be so kind as to walk us through a little bit of your journey.

Speaker 1: 4:30

Sure, when you say rap sheet, I feel like I should be in jail. But yeah, no, yeah, I think the big thing for me is I've. You know, when I moved out to Silicon Valley, I came out here because I was working at American Express doing something called database marketing, which you know for Sounds counterintuitive, counterintuitive, exactly. It's kind of evolved into, you know, crm marketing. But I was recruited from New York to go work for a company called Silicon Graphics, which was a hot technology company then, and so I've just spent my career working up and down Highway 101, more or less. And so I think you know I started out doing e-commerce and direct e-commerce and digital marketing. I started out doing e-commerce and digital marketing and did that for Apple, silicon Graphics, like I said, and then I went to work for Borders and ran their e-commerce business and e-toys.

Speaker 2: 5:22

Cool.

Speaker 1: 5:23

And after Borders I went to Intuit and it was really interesting. So at Intuit one of the business challenges in running the commerce site was hey, scott, we need lots and lots of content, like I think we all anybody who's run a website hears that from you know the product managers, the marketers, the customer success people, et cetera. And so I would say, well, show me the money and I can hire people to write, because I'm not a great writer. But nobody showed me the money. So then I kind of thought about some earlier projects I did, but nobody showed me the money. So then I kind of thought about some earlier projects I did.

Speaker 1: 5:55

And at Borders we basically created small community websites for their 200 stores and so the idea came up of doing community. And Scott Cook, the founder of the company, was really big on user-created content and if you go back in the archives he wrote a really inspiring article in HBR in 2003, archives. You wrote a really inspiring article in HBR in 2003, harvard Business Review, 2003, on user contribution systems, user-created content. And so we created this community and overnight it just took off. And one thing and I was going down the community path for a few companies, but when I went to.

Speaker 1: 6:30

So I was at Intuit and did it for Google and then when I went to Marketo, I realized that to be a community person is a little tough these days and tough back then, because you don't see any CEOs who have community background, you don't see anybody running a division who had a community background. So that's when I pivoted really into digital growth growth, digital growth engagement and this really led me to, you know, led me to working at Udacity and Coursera and HubSpot and at Clary. I managed the digital success, digital self-serve play, which basically means from a platform perspective, it's community, it's the university, it's KBs, it's's in product and I call the in product engagement, I call all that kind of your inbound, inbound self-serve, and then also outbound, which is email and ai, and we'll talk a little bit about ai maybe later on sure, yeah, yeah, that notion of inbound versus outbound is is interesting because they kind of overlap too sometimes, you know, because you need all that collateral and not, you know, articles and content and stuff to feed your outbound stuff too.

Speaker 1: 7:40

Yeah, and also you need to you know. One of the things I've tried to do is really understand what's the right lever, what's the right way to interact with somebody, so you can ask the customers how they want to interact with you, which I always try and do, but then the proof is in the pudding to see how they really engage with you when they come into your playground, so to speak. And when I was at HubSpot, we ran some really interesting experiments, and maybe it's intuitive, but sometimes I don't think of these things right away. But the first way that somebody engaged with you was the one they latched on to. So, in other words, if they latched on to your knowledge base, that's how they wanted to learn from you. If they went to community, it was community. So it takes a lot of work to get them to use more than one platform, or more than their one go-to platform. And then the second thing is, to your point, whether it's inbound or outbound, it's all part of a journey that needs to be well orchestrated.

Speaker 2: 8:31

Yeah, it's so true, and you hit on something that is near and dear to my heart, which is the different platforms, because so many of us use different things for different reasons. Obviously, you've got your LMS and you've got your knowledge base management and you've got things here and there your support tool might be completely different. And you've got things here and there your support tool might be completely different. And all of a sudden, you're asking your customers to log in to five different things just to get stuff done.

Speaker 1: 9:02

And it's a super crappy experience a lot of times. Yeah, no, it's a great point. There's some mini holy grails and one of them is SSO or single sign-on, and a lot of us struggle with how do you get that in an organization and a lot of us struggle with how do you get that, you know, in an organization. You know, I probably listed six or seven companies before and I only half of them was I able to to implement that.

Speaker 2: 9:19

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you've got, you know, cool stuff like I mean, ever After is so known as, so so known for their kind of single platform approach, which I think is super cool too. But yeah, so you mentioned the magic word. So we have to go down that path, with the magic word being artificial intelligence, because it's all the rage and I've been talking I mean, I've been talking a lot about AI recently in the newsletter and other places too because it's it's interesting to watch to. You know, we all have a front row seat, you know, and watching it evolve, it kind of feels like the, you know, the launch of the iPhone all over again, kind of. You know, we're watching this huge shift in technology and whatnot and it's interesting to see all the individual platforms adopt it and, you know, in a co-pilot kind of way. But then it's also interesting to watch, you know, individuals adopting artificial intelligence into their own workflow on a daily basis. But how have you approached AI, you know, at Clary, and how do you think about implementing it for customers?

Speaker 2: 10:29

Yeah so at.

Speaker 1: 10:29

AI at Clary, we think about it a number of ways. So we do have a product called Copilot, which is conversational or customer intelligence. It's somewhat similar to Gong and there's a lot you can do from an AI perspective there, which is analyzing calls. So basically it's recording your calls and then you can use AI to summarize those calls, to pull out themes, etc. So that's one example.

Speaker 2: 10:54

Like sentiment analysis and stuff like that too. Exactly, Exactly.

Speaker 1: 11:06

And to be honest you know one digital play I do is I use it to really understand who in the company is promoting our self-serve channels, right? So I play Big Brother and I'll go into it and just say OK, like we all know, like in terms of self-serve, you need internal support. It's a team, team sport, cross, cross-functional. But it's one thing to you know, create the content or sit down with folks and talk about how we should position self-serve or digital success. It's another to see if people actually do talk about it.

Speaker 1: 11:35

And so I use these tools to play big brother and listen to them. And then the second way is we just use it in the product to help predict companies' future revenue, et cetera. And then the third thing is so we recently launched our own AI chatbot is so we recently launched our own ai chatbot and basically we launched federated search and the chatbot on community, the knowledge base, and we're going to do the university as well. So it's it's basically one chatbot that appears in multiple places and is leveraging the same content that's cool.

Speaker 2: 12:10

Yeah, that's awesome. So it's it's basically trained on all that content and can reference it across. You know, no matter, no matter where you are logged in to the ecosystem exactly so.

Speaker 1: 12:22

I think a lot of people default to the help and knowledge based content when they're launching these chatbots, and so what we're doing is to, to your point, leveraging all this other content whether it's user created, partner created or, you know, Clary created and then the other part of it is integrating with our back end systems, whether it's Salesforce, et cetera, so that you can personalize it. So, Alex, you might be, you know, an admin versus a salesperson who's going to use our product Right Two very different personas and very different needs, and I find that that's a real, at least for me personally. A real area I'm interested in is how you are integrating not just content but these backend systems.

Speaker 2: 13:05

Yeah, I mean, my mind goes to two places, so I'll try to get us to both of those places. The first one is kind of like you know, for others that are wanting to do something similar, I'd be curious to know what kind of business case process, what kind of internal process you went through in order to, you know, get this in place. Did you have to win a lot of hearts and minds? Was it kind of a no-brainer? Yeah, we should go do this Like like what. What did the lead up to that? Look like?

Speaker 1: 13:40

Yeah, so definitely have to make a business case. I think so a few things. One is I was really fortunate to have a report. I reported to the chief customer officer. He has really embraced this, but he wanted to know what the KPIs would be, what the outcomes would be, some sort of model to outline that. And I leveraged active and engagement numbers from the other platforms. And then I also looked at the lift that you get for average contract value or ARR, from these self-serve platforms. But the real thing was quickly building some prototypes and putting them in front of customers.

Speaker 1: 14:19

I have a little bit of an attitude because I'm from New York and so I've listened to a lot of your podcasts and the New Yorker will come out in me. Is that, you know, I just think, as digital customer success, digital success, folks really leaning in to how do you drive innovation with your customers? In other words, you know, bringing customers in when you're even defining a program and getting their feedback on it, and so a lot of things. What I did is first talk to customers about what they want from this product, and then the second thing is building prototypes and getting them to respond to it, and then the third thing is making sure that you check in with them over time. Yeah, so this kind of customer driven innovation to me is really, really important. And then the challenges part, which I think you're asking as well. The biggest challenge is structured versus unstructured data, and the second challenge is some of these systems don't have great APIs, so it's really hard to integrate with them, and so you use some digital band-aids Sorry, digital duct tape.

Speaker 2: 15:27

Digital duct tape.

Speaker 1: 15:27

Digital duct tape oh, I like that that conjures, all kinds of images now we should go into a dally and write digital duct tape and see what image it comes up yeah, right, exactly I might do that for the artwork for this episode.

Speaker 2: 15:50

Yeah, I mean, I know all about the digital duct tape. I you know I've joked before that digital CS is kind of like the MacGyver of of CS, because we we just find a way to put shit together to make it work. You know.

Speaker 1: 16:01

Yeah, and I would say, like, as a hiring manager, that's such a key skill to find in people is that they're, they're resourceful, they're curious, they're resourceful and they can, whether you know, be a be a macgyver. I was trying to think of for a second what's the female version of macgyver, just to be politically correct. Um, you know, but being flexible to, yeah, you know, finding that that in person, that person or employee who can do that, MacGyver or MacGyveress. There you go.

Speaker 2: 16:30

Yeah, yeah, it's so true. It's so true, that kind of that. It's almost entrepreneurial thinking, really, because you're, you know, you just there's you need to solve for a problem. You may not have all the resources you need to solve for a problem, you may not have all the resources you need to solve for the problem, but the creativity comes in and you've got to figure out how to make it work. So it's interesting. And you did mention data as being a big problem, because I mean, I think I speak for many, many, many people when I say that you know, we probably couldn't reliably even tell you who our admins versus our end users are, you know, which I think a lot of people could sympathize with. So was there an element of data cleanliness and data hygiene exercises that you had to go through to prep for something like that, or did you have the luck of just having a good, good set of data to go into?

Speaker 1: 17:27

Yeah, I give. I mean to be transparent. I give us like a B minus in terms of you know what we were dealing with in terms of data. There was definitely a cleansing process. I think you know I mentioned my first career at American Express and you know I I always tell people that job was the most challenging of all the jobs I've ever had, because I was doing programs for like 10 to 20 million people.

Speaker 2: 17:49

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 17:50

And there was a huge amount of data cleansing because you can imagine you're dealing with people's credit card information and their spending. So I learned a lot in that process process but it's definitely a challenge in a lot of these companies that I've worked at is to get the you know the energy behind, get the enthusiasm behind I'll come up with another E word energy, enthusiasm and excitement around. You know cleaning the data Because you know it needs to be consistent in these different different systems. I mean just, you know Salesforce is the source of truth for a lot of people, but I think a lot of companies are not dealing with the best data.

Speaker 2: 18:28

Hey, I want to have a brief chat with you about this show. Did you know that roughly 60% of listeners aren't actually subscribed to the show, on whatever platform they're listening to it on? As you know, algorithms love likes, follows, subscribes, comments, all of that kind of stuff. So if you get value out of the content, you listen regularly and you want to help others to discover the content as well, please go ahead and follow the show, leave a comment, leave a review. Anything that you want to do there really helps us to grow organically as a show. And while you're at it, go sign up for the companion newsletter that goes out every week at digitalcustomersuccesscom now back to the show.

Speaker 2: 19:11

It's so funny because, you know, I've been part of data hygiene kind of motions where the impetus or the desire was to okay this field is now going to be required to close the opportunity or whatever it may be Like. This is a required field In order to do your job, you need to fill in this information, but then what invariably happens is you get crap information in that field because it's required and somebody just wants to put something in there to, like, you know, check the box, so to speak. And so I really liked what you said about just that mentality and the enthusiasm around data hygiene, because you know, ultimately you're helping teams help themselves. I love like throwing you know, hygiene parties and stuff like let's, you know, let's all get together on a big call and just like go through your accounts and fix this one field or something like that. You know, like those kinds of things make it fun.

Speaker 1: 20:13

Yeah, when I worked at Udacity, they would actually block off whole afternoons or days for beta testing or for things like data hygiene. And, to be honest, as a you know, one of the hats we all wear is program manager, product manager, whatever, and trying to get people on board to do an exercise like that is tough it's hard but it was really amazing at udacity. You know, we just put basically anoints one person to be captain and we tackle a problem yeah, yeah, almost hackathon style really.

Speaker 2: 20:48

Yeah, no, exactly.

Speaker 1: 20:49

Yeah, data hackathons need to have more data hackathons yeah, and you know a lot of these companies you know are relatively small, like american express is huge, into it was huge hub spots huge. But some of these other companies you know if you just put the energy into it you can probably get things cleaned up and then also just put some you know business processes in place. But if you have you know it's been a while since I've been at Intuit but if they try that today they have zillions of users. But if you're talking about, you know, a thousand customers and they say five to ten people at every customer. I mean it's, it's manageable yeah, yeah it really is do you?

Speaker 2: 21:31

if you were, if you were gonna go implement a? I mean, was there a vetting process between some vendors there? Um, from a chatbot perspective, is there any insight that you might be able to give? Um, not like who to choose and who not to choose, but, like you know, what are the things to watch out for as you're vetting these vendors?

Speaker 1: 21:51

As much as you can. Their track record and if they're new to AI which a lot of them are, are new to chatbots is understanding what else they've developed. Yeah, understanding the people who are going to be working on the project. So we ended up selecting somebody who is fairly new to working with LLMs and chatbots, but they had a proven track record with search technology and they also have proven track record in a few other areas, such as integrations. And then really looking at the people who are going to be, involved in your project.

Speaker 1: 22:25

The next thing is being really clear about what your requirements are. I know that sounds kind of crazy and obvious, but document, document, document. So there's no misunderstanding, especially because a lot of development is done with companies that are overseas. So that's not a critique, a criticism of anybody. It's just you know, you have a European influence and I might say tomato and you Sure, and you know, thinking through. I talked about integrations. If this chatbot or whatever is going to integrate with other systems is, do they have experience in those other systems?

Speaker 2: 23:05

Yeah, right, like writing a HubSpot integration. You kind of got to know a thing about HubSpot.

Speaker 1: 23:13

Exactly, exactly. So it's one thing to hire a company that and I'm talking, you know, like a lot of these chatbots say they integrate with Salesforce. Great, you know they can work with APIs, but I think it goes deeper than that. Like, have they actually even been an admin with Salesforce? I mean, there's so much you learn and when you're an admin of a product, you know the good, the bad and the ugly.

Speaker 2: 23:35

Yeah, I think one thing I would add. That's an excellent list. The one thing I would add to it is also, just like I guess, practical experience from a consultation standpoint, because I new thing. And so in selecting a vendor you want to select somebody who can help you really get in place a strong program at the beginning, driving the right insights, driving the right KPIs, setting things up to where know, to where they can be usable, like for your business. I couldn't imagine kind of implementing that technology without a services engagement from one of these vendors to help you navigate that stuff.

Speaker 1: 24:33

Yeah, that's a really good point. And I thought of one more. Yeah, are they willing to talk to customers?

Speaker 2: 24:39

Oh yeah.

Speaker 1: 24:40

Sure, again you're going to hear me talk a lot about the appetite we have to engage with customers and really learn from them. And, you know, even if they're a so-called partner or vendor or whatever you know, let's put them in front of the customers so they can hear them talk about their problems.

Speaker 2: 24:59

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 25:01

Their job is to be done not problems. Sorry, the desired outcomes that's right, but the service part you put you point out is really, really important. Do they know how to handle a real service engagement?

Speaker 2: 25:14

yeah, yeah, so know, one of the things that I do quite frequently just in, but you know I'm a collector of digital motions. Like anytime I see something that's that somebody is doing, especially in B2C, like, I always take a screenshot or I always kind of like try to remember, like what, what a certain company might be doing. That's really cool that you know that I could use later. Are there things like that for you that you kind of always keep an eye out for? Like, have you run across anything interesting recently in the wild? That's, that's digital and cool.

Speaker 1: 25:51

So I recently bought a Figma. I'm sorry. I recently bought a Fitbit. I was on Figma today and I bought a Fitbit. That's funny and my whole family's wearing Fitbits now, so we're all tracking.

Speaker 2: 26:02

Oh yeah, there's like a family component to Fitbit, isn't there? Yeah?

Speaker 1: 26:05

yeah, Sharing thing yeah yeah, yeah, okay. So I really like what they're doing, both in terms of treating me as an individual but also as a family. And then the I'll call it the automated plays. They have to follow up on that and you can imagine I mean I really enjoy these companies where you have. They're starting to do it, they're starting to learn from my sleep patterns. You know how to you know what's important to me. And to your point about the family, I'm curious of how they're going to contact all of us?

Speaker 2: 26:36

Yeah, that's interesting. Why I mean, I have you mean, I have my own kind of opinions about this, but why do you think the B2C like B2C has just always been so much better at digital than B2B and I think B2B in general is very reluctant to adopt some of these things because maybe they feel like it's childish or it's like not appropriate or whatever. Do you have strong feelings about that?

Speaker 1: 27:05

You know I've struggled with this since I've been out in Silicon Valley. I always tell people no one has been as sophisticated as my first job in terms of leveraging data. I think we're.

Speaker 1: 27:18

You know we watch a lot of people struggling with how companies focus more on growth and acquisition versus retention and expansion yeah and I think it's because, if it's like a seesaw, you know most or scale, most of the weight is still on this acquisition part of the game right. So they're focusing on that trend, that initial transaction from a even from a digital perspective. Sometimes they're focusing more on the initial transaction versus that relationship that can be built afterwards. And to build that relationship, data is really important. But it takes investment right and, again, most of the investment is going to go into the initial transaction yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 30:05

And you know, the one thing that also just comes to mind a lot for me is just sms, like b2c has always been, has been kind of always using text and sms and things like that, and obviously you get yourself into issues of you know privacy and things like that when dealing with sms, but I you know, I think I don't think b2b is focused on it enough, especially among executives, like you know.

Speaker 2: 30:32

I think I think if, if you engaged an executive the right way via sms, with a short sms that kind of gave them the you know the, the quarterly update of how the team is doing, versus like a QBR or a deck or an email, they're way more likely to engage with that than they are you know anything else you send them.

Speaker 1: 30:54

That's a great call out. I mean Udacity. When I was there, we were using text messaging and SMS, for we worked with a company called BlueShift which basically was our main email platform and they did a lot of great stuff around predictive modeling and AI, but they also had this SMS component. And you know, now, when you, based on what you just said, you're also having me think, like a lot of times, you know, you have a company that says I just want to focus on the CRO or focus on the grand prouba on the company. Well, they're not going to go into a community and they're bombarded with emails but nobody's saying OK, well, they're on their phone. Why don't I text them all the time? Or they could text me to my Fitbit if they want.

Speaker 2: 31:38

You got to go work out.

Speaker 1: 31:41

Exactly In the middle of your workout. But no, it's a great point and I think I just yeah, I wish we embraced B2C more often from a data perspective, from a customer research perspective from a technology perspective. But yeah, I think it's just the scale is more weight on the acquisition side.

Speaker 2: 32:01

Yeah, I actually didn't have BlueShift on my DCS tech stack page, so I'm going to add them right now. That's a good call out.

Speaker 1: 32:10

Yeah, they're kind of a sleeper in some ways, yeah, but they've done great work with Lendercom, they do great work with Udacity and they're probably into the predictive modeling for B2B email before most companies.

Speaker 2: 32:25

That's cool. That's cool, nice. So they got some lovely logos scrolling across their website.

Speaker 1: 32:32

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 32:33

And I just saw Udacity there.

Speaker 1: 32:37

Yeah, you might see me on that site if you do.

Speaker 2: 32:39

It's an old picture. Won't tell anyone, that's awesome. Look, as you know, as we kind of start to round things down, one of the things that I always love to ask my guests is what they're paying attention to, what's like in your content, feed and content, diet and books and all that kind of stuff. Is there anything particular that you're paying attention to?

Speaker 1: 33:00

yeah, so I really believe that for folks in our world, it's important to get beyond just prompts and really understand how AI works. Yeah, and so I looked at a number of programs. So I'm actually going through University of Vanderbilt's AI program Cool. You know, I won't get the cool logo like from Harvard or Stanford, but the guy who's running that is really interesting and he's doing some really great things and I just recommend. I was speaking to a bunch of digital content folks a few weeks ago and they asked me a similar question and so I recommended that.

Speaker 2: 33:36

That's really cool. I looked briefly at the UT program since I'm in Austin, you know, I was like you know, maybe I should look at UT. And then, of course, I got retargeted by MIT and Harvard and all these different places and that just made me go. Ah, forget about it.

Speaker 1: 33:52

Yeah, yeah. I think also just if people you know are thinking about this is like do you want the digital transformation theory strategy, big thought leadership, or do you want to really understand how the wheels and the bus go round and round? I'm more that kind of guy, Right, right, and so that's why I'm doing. So the first group go to Stanford, go to Harvard, but you're going to spend $2,000 to $10,000.

Speaker 2: 34:21

You're not a wax the car kind of person You're like pop the hood.

Speaker 1: 34:28

Let's check out what's underneath. Yeah, exactly, if you can't find me, I'm under my car, so don't throw me under the bus. No, but so that you know. There's other programs, but I found that one really helpful. So I'm looking at that a lot. And then there's just a bunch of podcasts. I'm totally I have a problem. I'm addicted to podcasts, so I listen to them all night.

Speaker 2: 34:43

So yeah, what do you listen? To ai and business ai daily briefing decoder you might have mentioned I think somebody might have mentioned in one of your shows decoder yeah, totally yeah, so uh interesting I um, I listen to everyday AI pretty much religiously and it'd be curious to listen to I hadn't listened to AI daily briefing, so I might give that one a whirl too.

Speaker 1: 35:13

Yeah, they're pretty. They're pretty good. I'm so, and then I'm a news junkie too, so I listened to. Actually, I just read. Every night before I go to bed I read all the New York City newspapers.

Speaker 2: 35:25

Oh geez Wow.

Speaker 1: 35:29

How long does that?

Speaker 2: 35:30

take you.

Speaker 1: 35:32

I spend about an hour and a half. I mean I read cover to cover reading Times, the Wall Street Journal, even though you know these are not just, and then the New York Post, which is like comic books for adults yeah, totally, that's awesome.

Speaker 2: 35:49

Well, is there anybody you want to give a shout out to?

Speaker 1: 35:52

to you oh um yeah, I mean, first of all, I've really learned a lot watching your shows too, is you know? I just think you're doing a tremendous service for everybody here. And then the third thing is I'm really looking forward to working with you on this digital success and scale project, which is going to be webinars every once a month, first or second thursday every month. You'll hear more about it, but, yeah, I think I really want to give a shout out to you, and then I also want to give a shout out to you, and then I also want to give a shout out to Rod Cherkus.

Speaker 2: 36:23

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 36:23

Who I worked with at Intuit and Marketo, so I've known Rod for a long time. We were in the same group and I think he's providing really valuable thought leadership, especially when it comes to chief customer officers.

Speaker 2: 36:37

Totally. His new book, Reach, is real good too. He is. I want to look real quick, episode 50 something maybe. Yeah, yeah, Y'all can. Y'all can use Google. I won't tell you here. That's cool, Rod's a good, Rod's a good shout out for sure. Nice Well, where can people find you? Engage with you, hang out with you, chat with you?

Speaker 1: 37:04

all that stuff. You can always hang out with me in any gym in the country. I'm into pickup basketball these days. Are you Other than that?

Speaker 2: 37:13

See, my knees can't handle that anymore.

Speaker 1: 37:15

Oh, mine can't either. But you just say, you know, you live once.

Speaker 2: 37:20

That's right Pickup basketball is a great collaborative team project.

Speaker 1: 37:27

Let me just tell you, yeah, but yeah, linkedin. I, like everybody, I'm on linkedin. I'm, you know, I learned so much from linkedin so you can always reach, reach out and find me there and eventually, on this new platform that you and I are working on yeah, that's great.

Speaker 2: 37:40

Along with Sam Davis, we should say Sam David. She's the Picasso of Canva, exactly Cool. Thanks for the time. I really appreciate it. It's always a pleasure talking to you, but especially now, and definitely looking forward to keeping on collaborating with you and stuff. So we'll keep it going.

Speaker 1: 38:05

Well, thank you for making it a great Friday afternoon.

Speaker 2: 38:10

Thank you for joining me for this episode of the Digital CX Podcast. If you like what we're doing, consider leaving us a review on your podcast platform of choice. If you're watching on YouTube, leave a comment down below. It really helps us to grow and provide value to a broader audience. You can view the Digital Customer Success Definition Wordmap and get more information about the show and some of the other things that we're doing at digitalcustomersuccesscom. This episode was edited by Lifetime Value Media, a media production company founded by our good mutual friend, Dylan Young. Lifetime Value aims to serve the content, video, audio production needs of the CS and post-sale community. They're offering services at a steep discount for a limited time. So navigate to lifetimevaluemediacom, go have a chat with Dylan and make sure you mention the Digital CX podcast sent you. I'm Alex Trukovich. Thanks so much for listening. We'll talk to you next week.