The Digital Customer Success Podcast

Video Micro-Learning at Scale with Delores Cooper of Zendesk | Episode 044

March 19, 2024 Alex Turkovic, Delores Cooper Episode 44
The Digital Customer Success Podcast
Video Micro-Learning at Scale with Delores Cooper of Zendesk | Episode 044
Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

Not only does Delores Cooper of Zendesk have a pretty amazing back story, she's also doing some pretty amazing things with a small and scrappy team at Zendesk. Short form video has become an increasingly popular medium for distribution of content and Zendesk is utilizing this as part of their digital enablement strategy.

In this conversation, we talk about: 

  • Delores' entry into tech from social work & psychology
  • Timing of digital motions along the customer journey
  • Dealing with variables such as industry-specific differences 
  • Team structure at Zendesk to support digital & scaled program 
  • Getting scrappy with resources and cross-functional departments to help build the program
  • Short-form content as part of the ‘Success on Zendesk’ program
  • Using data to determine what content to produce
  • Distribution model for video-based learning
  • Taking learnings from B2C on how to interject more human language into B2B

Delores' LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/delorescooper/
DCS Connect Community: https://airtable.com/appLGhZyujOoYp8BQ/shr4ixoZmB8hBoLbM

Shoutouts:

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The Digital Customer Success Podcast is hosted by Alex Turkovic

Speaker 1:

And digital. If you want to do it, and you want to do it well, you have to be comfortable with with not achieving perfection.

Speaker 2:

And, once again, welcome to the digital customer success podcast with me, alex Chokovic. So glad you could join us here today and every week as I seek out and interview leaders and practitioners who are innovating and building great scaled CS programs. My goal is to share what I've learned and to bring you along with me for the ride so that you get the insights that you need to build and evolve your own digital CS program. If you'd like more info, want to get in touch or sign up for the latest updates, go to digitalcustomersuccesscom. For now, let's get started, and welcome to episode 44 of the digital customer success podcast. Is so great to have you back.

Speaker 2:

As usual, today's episode features Dolores Cooper of Zendesk. She runs their America's scaled team and I was excited to have her on after I met her during a DCS connect event where she gave us an overview of some of the great work that's being done with micro learning in the video format at Zendesk to help customers at scale. And so we talk about Dolores's background, which is actually completely unrelated to CS. She started her life and career in social work and rehab psychology and has been a kind of moving through different roles in tech at Zendesk over the last few years, where she currently works in scale.

Speaker 2:

We talk about you know, not just how Zendesk is structured around digital, but we get into some of the specifics of you know the programs that she has helped build out, and one of the things that we hit on quite a bit is just the scrappiness of it, because not all of us are blessed with massive budgets to go build all kinds of fun stuff Right, in fact, the majority of us probably aren't. So we talk a little bit about you know how to utilize the resources that you have around you on a shoestring budget and those kinds of things. So a really awesome conversation with Dolores Cooper. I hope you enjoy it, because I sure did. Dolores Cooper, it's a delight to have you on the show and I'm pleased that you took some time out of your busy day and end of quarter to join me, so welcome.

Speaker 1:

Thank you, I'm so excited to talk to you, yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yeah for sure. We met each other because we are mutual members of the DCS Connect Slack community. So if you're not a member of the DCS Connect Slack, you better get your butt over there and sign up for that, because it's a great place where a bunch of DCS practitioners talk and in your case you did a bit of a like a tech stack kind of deal that was really cool and had the pleasure of attending and where you showed off some of this cool stuff that you're doing at Zendesk. So that's where we first met and have had the pleasure of chatting a couple of times with you. But I'm surprised to say you're doing some great stuff and I can't wait to you know, share what you're doing with the community a little bit.

Speaker 2:

First, I figured it might be good to get a little bit of your kind of origin story, because I know that most people don't really utilize their like early education and stuff like that, you know, in their long tail career. I'm one of those people, but you kind of took a hard left, like you're. I think you were kind of in social work and psychology or something like that early on and now you're in tech. What's that all about?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, um, well, after high school had no idea what I wanted to do, like many people entering the world of higher education, but somehow I woke up and I thought to myself I'm going to change the world and I'm going to do it in social work and it's going to be great and I'm going to be so fulfilled and make a difference. And social work is very fulfilling, um, but it takes a certain kind of human being, a really tough person, to work in social work, and I'm not ashamed to say that that was, that was not me. Um, I went into college knowing one thing that I did not want to be a teacher, because also remarkable human beings who are educators.

Speaker 2:

Um, just for me. And underappreciated, I think, in both categories. Oh my gosh.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely 100% Um. But yeah, so I landed on um rehabilitation psychology. I really liked um learning about um disabilities and and things like that, and I wanted to, and for a while after college or even during college, um, I was working in um nonprofit and just helping with adults with developmental disabilities and that was great Um. And then I was hungry for something else, so I put a sharp left turn, sharp left turn.

Speaker 2:

Yeah For sure, into Zendesk, where you've been for a while. What? What led you into Zendesk to begin with?

Speaker 1:

Funny story. Um, I saw it on a bus, on the city bus. Um, just the logo. And you know how, when you buy a red car, then you see red cars like everywhere, everywhere. Um, I was working at the YWCA in Madison and um, which is a nonprofit. Zendesk is a huge supporter of the YWCA and they were allowing us to host some event in their office space and had never heard of Zendesk. After we hosted the event there, I saw it everywhere on the side of buses, on like like benches, like everywhere, yeah, and then on the website, like just everywhere. Um, and what really got me out? We walked into the Zendesk office and there was a live moss wall and I was like that's, that's grass on the wall. That's really cool. And then there was a vending machine full of Apple products.

Speaker 2:

I was like what is this?

Speaker 1:

place. This is where. This is where I need to be. So the rest is history. I applied and then I got it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's cool that was it. You're still there. You've had, you know, you've transitioned through a bunch of different roles, um, with your current, I think it was like scale customer manager, scale to customer says something like that.

Speaker 1:

Yep Manager. Um, yeah, I definitely had a couple of positions as started at a as a customer advocate and support, just which I think everyone just like retail everyone.

Speaker 2:

Sure.

Speaker 1:

Some some great way. And it humbles you right 40 secs customer service and then from there from advocacy moved over to customer experience, really working with new customers, newer customers, and then that department at the time or org at the time merged into customer success and with the CSM and then worked my way up to senior manager.

Speaker 2:

So that transition into tech, how difficult was, was that like? I mean, I would imagine that was. It's two completely different worlds, bunch of acronyms, you know just totally different thing what? Was that challenge like?

Speaker 1:

The work that comes to mind again. It's just, it was a very humbling experience. You, you know, typically in nonprofits you are it's a very everyone do does everyone's job right, because you have to. Resources are limited, it's just the nature of it and sometimes it can involve some tech, but not not really not what I was doing. I was doing development work and event planning, things like that when I was at the YWCA I mean. So, moving over to Zendes, it's here's this shiny Mac and I was a PC person. I was like how do I turn it on? And they're like also, here's this suite of products that people are going to be asking you questions about when they call. They're probably going to be angry because people don't call support usually when they're happy. So just just fix it. So yeah, that transition was very humbling, but I will say I had. I've been like honored to have such amazing managers at every position that I've been in from the very beginning and they've helped me tremendously.

Speaker 2:

So I mean that's hard.

Speaker 1:

Totally worth it.

Speaker 2:

That's like the key right. You have good leadership in place and you can. You can persevere through that stuff. So that's, that's awesome. Well, that's off to you for that Transition, and then also just the because that's that. You know it's easy to get complacent and you're obviously one that wants to like, strive for new stuff, which is cool, yeah. So you know, one of the questions that I ask all of my guests which I'd love to pose to you as well, since you've been in scale and digital for a while is literally what's, what's your elevator pitch definition of digital.

Speaker 1:

I knew you're going to ask me this and I intentionally did not script anything, draft anything. So I think sorry one.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, we got some sirens. It's, it's, it's, it's making the whole thing real dramatic. I gotta say it's good.

Speaker 1:

Okay, it's on now. Hopefully everyone's. Okay, there's no fire, but, yeah, elevator pitch. So I think it's the the perfect mix right and the right balance between timing and tooling, using that qualitative data, using the quantitative data to understand what customers need and want and when they want it, and then doing it right and providing those resources and tools for them to be successful. The ultimate goal is to create the ideal experience for every customer so that they know and like confidently believe that the partnership that they have with you and whatever product you have is exactly what they do for their business. Yeah, and obviously one of the emotions of digital is is doing all of that in a scalable way, and that is definitely a challenge.

Speaker 2:

So it is yeah for sure. The best elevator pitch you've heard so far is real good. Actually, I love the, the combination of you know tooling, because it is all about like you can. You can have like really great, you know automated stuff, but if you send it at the wrong time you might as well not send it at all.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2:

How much of that timing is based on timeline events, like, like you know, you've got onboarding plus whatever and you've got renewal minus whatever versus like timing based on like telemetry. Okay, this, this went down. We got to jump in here.

Speaker 1:

In a perfect world 5050. There we are right now. I think it's definitely identifying key parts on the customer journey and customer timeline or lifecycle. You know yeah. So yeah, like yeah, I onboarding retention, yeah.

Speaker 2:

And it's super hard to because that stuff changes with every customer. You know you have you have constants along the timeline, but then some customers just kind of coast through there taking yourself service stuff there don't need much help and others are just, like you know, constant, yeah, fire.

Speaker 1:

Totally and then throw in. Throw in industries right, like where people are in onboarding and retail could be drastically different from manufacturing or distribution right. So, yeah, it's figuring out, it's. It's a tough pill to swallow out. For me, I guess it being comfortable with like not knowing or not having like the perfect solution. You know, like she got, you have indigital. If you want to do it and you want to do it well, you have to be comfortable with with not achieving perfection.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, ooh, that's, that's a, that's a, that's a good spicy nugget right there. And it's so true. It's so true because the variables are astronomically massive and you can't develop something that hits every single variable all the time. Yeah, Right.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and that's a that's a challenge too, that not a lot of people have talked about, which is to say that there are some platforms out there, like Zendesk, where you're not focused on a specific industry. There are, you know, hundreds and hundreds of different industry. You know, probably not just software, but just any. Anything you need a ticketing system for is using the tool. So you know there's requirements among requirements there to do on guessing.

Speaker 1:

It's a struggle, it's. It's probably one of the the most general sort of lessons I've learned, because you can definitely apply something like that like to personal things and just even outside of digital it's not as much as you want. A one size fits all solution is never gonna happen, nope.

Speaker 2:

Nope, never gonna happen. So give us a little insight in terms of team structure, because this is what this is, something that's, you know, unique to every person I've ever talked to, but how? Zendesk is doing some cool things around digital and scale, but but how? Are the team structure to support that.

Speaker 1:

Sure. So, like you we've talked about I I lead our a mayor scale team and when we identified and really wanted to take action on building out a digital motion, we knew that we wanted to work really closely and not just we wanted to be hands on in building it. So what that meant is identifying people within the scale team to sort of agree to take on, you know, managing their scale duties but also building up this wonderful digital success experience for our customers as well. We had to get really creative with resources to make it happen. I think a benefit all customers can use digital. It's not just you know, hey, if you're not a scale customer, you can't touch our digital success content. It's for everyone. So I also want to call out that we had, like many, many different partners and players, community self-service and automation team marketing obviously success. All of those teams, all of those players saw a need to have to create, to optimize our digital experience for customers and it was super easy to get them to participate.

Speaker 1:

So I think really fortunate in that.

Speaker 2:

That's cool. Yeah, because so much of what we do on a daily basis relies on other teams and other tools to accomplish. So when you've got good relationships that way, that helps for sure.

Speaker 1:

Yes, the power of networking. So also going back to your call out for the Slack community totally network where you can. You would be surprised at how many solutions you find and people you haven't even met yet.

Speaker 2:

Totally, absolutely All corners of the globe too, which is cool. Well, you recently, speaking of that community, you recently showed off some of the things that you're doing, especially around like short form video, which is, I think, well, I think short form video period is just crazy effective because it speaks more to how we consume content these days, in the TikTok generation, so to speak. But do you want to give us a little bit of a walk through, about through, kind of how that program came to be, what it looks like today, how you went about building it and those kinds of things?

Speaker 1:

Sure, yeah. So I guess, starting from the beginning, just understanding from our own lived experiences as consumers, we know that our attention spans are significantly different since COVID, right, and since migrating to work from home environments, or to work from home environments, not bad, it's just different.

Speaker 1:

Like we're all type-tasking, we're moving we have limited time to commit to focusing on one task right, Especially in a world of competing priorities. So we knew that, with whatever content we created for digital, it needed to be bite-sized, it needed to be digestible. We knew that we would have our customers' attention If we're lucky like 20 minutes right, and we want to do a lot of stuff in that 20 minutes. And just like you said, I always say this and I always tell my team that we are in the TikTok era. Like we, I love TikTok. I'm not ashamed to admit it. People want their like aha moments and realizations quickly. Yeah, so also partnering with our self-service team and tapping into feedback collected by our customer insights team, which I mentioned in that presentation, we were able to understand what customers needed. We didn't have to assume, right, we're just like oh yeah, customers will love this.

Speaker 1:

Well, do we know? Like, maybe they're just like, I don't care about this. We went directly to them. We can understand what their pain points are and understand the impact that those pain points cause right, but also understand what they love, like, why are they committed or why are they loyal customers? What do they love about Zendesk the product, what do they love about Zendesk the people? And we took all of that. All of that identified where, on the customer journey, on the customer lifecycle, we wanted to start, got all our key players suited up, and now we have a digital experience called Successful Zendesk and it's great.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I went on the Zendesk YouTube channel, which I guess you know is where a lot of that is hosted, and started started going through some of those things. They're easy to spot because they're like three minute videos, you know, but they're really cool and they're, you know, again, short and engaging and they look super pro. But from what you were saying, yeah, from what you were saying their, you know, budget constraints are a real thing, right, and you and the team had to get kind of scrappy to get these produced right.

Speaker 1:

Yep, we. Scrappy is the perfect word. We had to get scrappy. We had to identify. I'm lucky, like truly, finding people on my team that were committed and passionate about building this out. Like truly saw it. It took no convincing. They saw the need for it, they wanted to try something new, they wanted to build a new muscle right. And then there was just like a general sort of willingness to get it wrong almost you know.

Speaker 1:

And I think that kind of bravery allows you to create like really cool, fun, creative content, and I think that's what we have with like each component of Success. Within Desk, we have the community, or the discussion space within our community, which is super crucial to have like customers networking and talking to each other. We have our customer success on demand, our video series. Yeah, it's great.

Speaker 2:

So it's. You know, I love the fact that you actually used data to determine what you wanted to include, because that's hard to get to sometimes, so I think that was probably a luxury, but I love that you were very analytics driven, in terms of you know, kind of making sure that you hit the right marks, so to speak. Well, what did that process look like? For, okay, you've identified, like, these key areas where you and I'm trying to get a little tactical here were you very script-driven? Was this kind of loose and you know more based around the persona who was presenting the information? What did the production of that stuff look like?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so Grace Maxson is our main content creator.

Speaker 2:

She is.

Speaker 1:

you know? Yes, you've seen her on the videos. It probably was a little combination of both, right, like. So we knew, when we chose whatever theme we were focused on for that month or whatever topic, we knew key bullets of what we wanted to get across, and sometimes, yes, we did write a script of a couple of sentences that said the thing we wanted to say over and over again. Sometimes we started from a success measures perspective of, like how will we know this is successful? Okay, if we see this activity, this activity, or if a customer does this, well then let's write something that encourages that behavior. Right, so it was a little mixture of both. And then the other half, she just winged it. It was great, she's awesome.

Speaker 2:

I love that approach, actually, because you know you want to hit on the things that you want to make sure you hit on, but at the same time you want it to be human and having a fully scripted video is like the quickest way to being non-human.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely. I could probably say that we had A equal list of things that we for sure wanted to do in our videos and a list of things that we wanted to avoid in our videos, and that's one of them, like have a large support board. We don't want to provide technical assistance in these videos. We don't even want to really get into like the functionality piece Too deep. Sometimes you just can't avoid it and that's fine. We we knew what we didn't want our video to be want to have our own personality, our own customer success brand coming across in these videos. We want it to be like a more useful tick tock. You can, yeah, sure, sure.

Speaker 2:

What lately tick tock is just like selling stupid products.

Speaker 1:

Oh my god, tick tock shop. It's like ruined it. I love the hate. Yeah, yeah, I don't need the neck massage.

Speaker 2:

No, I can't leave me alone, yeah.

Speaker 1:

Um, but yeah, so we knew what we wanted and we knew, we knew the message and sort of the brand that we did not want to create with a video.

Speaker 2:

So yeah, and most folks who are consuming that content aren't like me and going to the YouTube channel and, you know, going through, probably not. I mean, I'm sure there are, but, um, so what is? What is that delivery mechanism look like? Um, you know, and how are you distributing those in a timely fashion, like you were saying?

Speaker 1:

Absolutely Um. Well, another shout out to Cooper Rowe Um, he is so obsessive. Data like in a um, in a scary way, but like it totally play, it's to our benefit. Um, he is tasked with, as, as it relates to digital success, identifying our target audience. Right, so we can know, um, what theme we want to focus on, or what topic we want to focus on. We come together determine, hey, how do we want to measure success? And then Cooper goes off and he identifies our target audience.

Speaker 1:

Cool, once we have that, we, um, we are a game site house. We definitely leverage any orchestrator, um that feature of game site to send all of this stuff out. So, um, we put together a newsletter with the help of our customer lifecycle marketing team, um, that links all of their relevant resources. Here's some videos for you to digest, um, or and or you can go to the community if you prefer to read. If that's the kind of learner that you are, um and you want to engage, you can also do some another one of our scale programs CS live, if you want to have like a small group, um, so just sit back and not be overwhelmed by 600 person webinar, you know? Yep, um, yeah, so we use journey orchestrator emails the way we are playing with hopefully in the next couple of months um putting this digital success content into the product um through IPM. So that will be exciting too.

Speaker 2:

That'll be super cool. Yeah, just shooting that stuff in product is is super useful, because then you can like somebody's struggling with this thing and you can like say here, here's some help.

Speaker 1:

Yeah exactly, and at some point you have to think like, if I'm building content to get people to understand the value of the product, how helpful is it if I'm taking them away from the product to view the content? You know, yeah, yeah, just don't really make sense yeah, totally, totally.

Speaker 2:

Um, on a related but tangential note what is your, what does your team look like, who's who's like, who's on your team and and kind of, what roles do you have on the team?

Speaker 1:

Well, only cool people on my team obviously um.

Speaker 2:

The only cool must apply.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, absolutely. Um, I think it's on, I think it's in the top screen. Um, so again, everyone title wise on my team or role wise on my team. They're skilled CSM and some of them have this opportunity to sort of dabble a little bit in in digital, so they're sort of honorary roles, would be like content creator, data analysts, things like that. But I think that's technically still like that.

Speaker 2:

I love that, um, because it solves a problem that I see quite a bit where you don't necessarily have the resources to do the full blown approach of, hey, you've got a scale team that's literally just customer facing and reacting to stuff and reaching out and taking inbound, and I think that this digital team that all they do is live and journey orchestrator and all they do is analyze data and all the you know there's there's kind of like that separation and that's kind of like the full tilt approach.

Speaker 2:

The reality is is that Most of us don't have the resources to do that, and I always love it when you can, you know, find people that have an interest and have a passion and and know about something that you can utilize in a unique way, and then being able to structure the team in such a way to where, hey, if you want to specialize in this one thing, grow your career, gain some new skills, take on some projects, add stuff to your resume, go to town. I love, I love those kinds of opportunities and it sounds like you're you're able to provide that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's, I'm happy that that's how it's really played out. Yeah, yeah, I think the insights that they have from being having a owning a book of business, being a scale CSM, are invaluable to what they create and how they create and how they approach, you know, bring forming things or even just the content creation. It totally influences that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, have you gotten specific in terms of like, hey, 20% of your gig is this and 80% is that, or is it? Does it just kind of work out in the wash?

Speaker 1:

We're working it out, we're figuring it out. I think it's agility, it's flexibility, it's understanding. Something that's not predictable is the number of customers that are going to respond to you any given week. So sometimes they don't want to talk to you and look, I have a whole week of time to commit to digital and another week, or the entire month of January, it seems, everything that wants to talk to you every day, every minute, so it's a little less time to commit.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Yeah, it gives you some levers to purr for sure. One of the things that I love to do is just keep my eye out for different digital emotions that I see in the wild, so to speak, Because we all recognize them when we get those emails or we get those text messages or whatever. So it's something that either you've worked on or that you've seen out in the wild recently that you thought were really cool.

Speaker 1:

Well, obviously, the stuff that we're doing has been done. Obvi.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

That's all right. I have been receiving some really cool success newsletters from outreach, oh yeah, and from Gangside. Those have been really cool, and the things that I've seen Qualtrics put out as far as a customer hub and their digital success motion super cool. I want to. This is consumer Dolores talking now. I really like ButcherBox and HelloFresh. I know that they're both food related but whatever Amazing. Really I don't mean any more subscriptions in my life, but they're convincing me.

Speaker 2:

Well, here's the deal, and we've said this before on the show. It's like, for some weird reason, there's this reluctance to take lessons learned and examples from B2C, when B2C has been killing it in this field for ages because that's how they operate and stuff like that. So I love it when people bring those kinds of examples, because I think that there's huge potential is the wrong word, but there's huge, like we should be, communicating as humans. Let's just put it that way.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely yes. Digital doesn't mean you just like drop a mask and put on your like robot face and voice and yeah, no, like people still want to have a connection and you can. It's totally possible to create that with digital.

Speaker 2:

I totally agree, I totally agree Any glaring mistakes that you've learned from or I was. I was love to ask this question because, like digital, is all about making mistakes and learning and then pivoting.

Speaker 1:

And then, yes, I don't, even, I don't. I'm going to reframe the question, it's not a mistake.

Speaker 2:

They're like huh learning learning opportunity.

Speaker 1:

And I think it goes back to something I said in the beginning just a willingness to not get it right the first time. It does not need to be perfect. I think we definitely were able to create good quality content and get it out pretty quickly, but I think it probably could have been faster, Just with the level of detail, my as my own patient and wanting it to be right. I don't know I won't know it's right until I put it up and then get feedback. So just that part.

Speaker 2:

So we're getting over myself and just get it out there. Yeah, for sure, Get it out there. I think.

Speaker 2:

I think there's a mantra we can all live by. Yeah, absolutely, just do it. Yeah, yeah, for sure, that's cool, I dig it. Look, I, I've really appreciated this time and, as we kind of round down, I'd love to kind of learn a little bit more about what you're paying attention to. I know you give some some cool shout outs, but, like, is there, is there, like you know, content that you consume on a regular basis? Are there some shout outs to cool people doing cool stuff and digital right now? Like, what are you paying attention to?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, definitely. Again, that DCS Slack community has been so helpful for me and just feeling, I guess, a sense of belonging Like there's so many people. This is not a slight, but there's so many people in that channel who also don't have it figured out that it's just refreshing to be among people. Okay, I'm not the only one. This is great. Let's talk about love. That I think when I'm being tasked with a digital project, I actually try to learn more about like human behavior than like what digital success is, or you know what it means for this industry or that industry.

Speaker 1:

Just what are consumers doing? What are the trends, Love trends reports and in those kinds of insights, things like that. That helps me go to my team and say we should try this or something's not, something's misfiring, Like let's, let's pivot a little bit. So those are the things that I've been like focusing a lot of my time on, for sure.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, for sure, that's. That's super cool and yeah, the Slack community will link it down in the show notes. If you guys want to join it, I highly recommend you do. But yeah, it is. It is like a sense of belonging and, you know, there's like there's a unspoken, no stupid questions kind of policy in there, which is cool.

Speaker 1:

I was told about it. I honestly can't remember who told me about it. If you're listening and you told me about it, credits to you. I sat on it for a while because I was just so nervous of like, okay, I'm going to enter the space and everyone's going to be so much further along than I am, I'm going to be the newbie. No, I, that's. That's a big mistake Not joining sooner. Not asking questions.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, for sure. I mean, you know it's. It's funny because there are a surprising, a surprisingly few number of CS orgs that have a dedicated, like scaled or digital program. And yeah, some of it is through ops or whatever, but it's still this kind of black box. You either have it or you don't, mentality, which is not obviously not not right, but you know it's, it's, it's a testament to Zendesk and others that have, you know, substantial scale teams and these cool kind of programs that they've invested in be scrappy. Hey, you're still doing it.

Speaker 1:

So yes, exactly yeah. So how do you just kind of roll up your seats?

Speaker 2:

You do. Yeah Well, look, it's been a pleasure having you on. I always love chatting with you. We'll obviously keep in touch and immunity, but I'm working people. I'm just trying to find you, reach out to you, chat with you, all that kind of good stuff.

Speaker 1:

Yes, hit me up in the in the Slack community, linkedin, I'm here.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, well, thanks again. Have a good rest of your day and good rest of the quarter, and I wish you lots of luck.

Speaker 1:

Thanks, alex, me too.

Speaker 2:

Thank you for joining me for this episode of the digital customer success podcast. If you like what we're doing, consider leaving us a review on your podcast platform of choice. It helps us to grow and to provide value to a broader audience. You can view the digital customer success definition word map and get more details about the show at digitalcustomersuccesscom. My name is Alex Turkovich. Thanks again for joining and we'll see you next time.

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